FOURTH PUBLIC EXAMINATION

In their presence, We required the said Jeanne to swear to tell the truth on everything touching her Trial.

"Willingly will I swear," she answered, "to tell the truth on everything touching the trial, but not all that I know."

We required her again to speak the truth on all which should be asked of her.

"You ought to be satisfied," she answered. "I have sworn enough."

Then, by Our order, Maître Beaupère began to question her. And first he inquired of her, how she had been since the Saturday before?

"You can see for yourself how I am. I am as well as can be."

"Do you fast every day this Lent?"

"Is that in the Case? Well, yes! I have fasted every day during this Lent."

"Have you heard your Voices since Saturday?"

"Yes, truly, many times."

"Did you hear them on Saturday in this hall, where you were being examined?"

"That is not in your Case. Very well, then - yes! I did hear them."

"What did your Voice say to you last Saturday?"

"I did not quite understand it; and up to the moment when I returned to my room, I heard nothing that I may repeat to you."

"What did it say to you in your room, on your return?"

"It said to me, 'Answer them boldly.' I take counsel with my Voice about what you ask me. I will tell willingly whatever I shall have permission from God to reveal: as to the revelations concerning the King of France, I will not tell them without the permission of my Voice."

"Has your Voice forbidden you to tell everything?"

"I did not quite understand it."

"What did your Voice last say to you?"

"I asked counsel about certain things that you had asked me."

"Did it give you counsel?"

"On some points, yes; on others you may ask me for an answer that I shall not give, not having had leave. For, if I answered without leave, I should no longer have my Voices as warrant. When I have permission from Our Savior, I shall not fear to speak, because I shall have warrant."

"This Voice that speaks to you, is it that of an Angel, or of a Saint, or from God direct?"

"It is the Voice of Saint Catherine and of Saint Margaret.(1)....(This is the first identification of the "revelations" with any name; Jeanne had always spoken of her "Voices" or her "Counsel.")

Their faces are adorned with beautiful crowns, very rich and precious. To tell you this I have leave from Our Lord. If you doubt this, send to Poitiers, where I was examined before."

"How do you know if these were the two Saints?"

"How do you distinguish one from the other?"

"I know quite well it is they; and I can easily distinguish one from the other."

" How do you distinguish them?"

" By the greeting they give me. It is seven years now since they have undertaken to guide me. I know them well because they were named to me."

"Are these two Saints dressed in the same stuff?"

"I will tell you no more just now; I have not permission to reveal it. If you do not believe me, go to Poitiers. There are some revelations which come to the King of France, and not to you, who are questioning me."

"Are they of the same age?"

"I have not leave to say."

"Do they speak at the same time, or one after the other?"

"I have not leave to say; nevertheless, I have always had counsel from them both."

" Which of them appeared to you first?"

"I did not distinguish them at first. I knew well enough once, but I have forgotten. If I had leave, I would tell you willingly : it is written in the Register at Poitiers. (2)....(This Examination at Poitiers had taken place in the Chapel attached to the Palace of the Counts of Poitou, which still exists and adjoins the 'Salle des Pas Perdus,' now the Great Hall of the Palais de Justice. It was conducted under the direction of the Archbishop of Reims during the months of March and April, 1429, and extended over three weeks. At the conclusion, the assembly sent, as the result of their inquiries, a resolution to the King to the effect that he should follow the Maid's guidance, and seek for the sign she promised him in the relief of Orleans, as a proof of the Divine origin of her mission, "for," they added, "to doubt or forsake her without any appearance of evil would be to vex the Holy Spirit, and to make himself unworthy of the help of God: so said Gamaliel in the Council of the Jews with regard to the Apostles." Unfortunately, no trace of this Examination has been found: the 'Book of Poitiers' is referred to several times in the Trial ; but it was not forth coming at the time of the Rehabilitation. It was probably lost or destroyed by Jeanne's enemies among her own party. The Archbishop of Reims 'would have had it in his charge: and he was consistently opposed to Jeanne throughout. During her stay at Poitiers the Maid lodged in the house of Jean Rabatier.)

"I have also received comfort from Saint Michael."

"Which of these two appearances came to you first?"

"Saint Michael."

"Is it a long time since you first heard the voice of Saint Michael?"

"I did not say anything to you about the voice of Saint Michael; I say I have had great comfort from him."

"What was the first Voice that came to you when you were about thirteen?"

"It was Saint Michael: I saw him before my eyes; he was not alone, but quite surrounded by the Angels of Heaven. I came into France only by the order of God."

"Did you see Saint Michael and these Angels bodily and in reality?"

"I saw them with my bodily eyes as well as I see you; when they went from me, I wept. I should have liked to be taken away with them."

"And what was Saint Michael like?"

"You will have no more answer from me; and I am not yet free to tell you."

"What did Saint Michael say to you this first time?"

"You will have no more answer about it from me today. My Voices said to me, 'Reply boldly.' Once I told the King all that had been revealed to me, because it concerned him ; but I am no longer free to reveal to you all that Saint Michael said to me."

[To Maître Beaupère:] "I wish you could get a copy of this book at Poitiers, if it please God."

"Have your Voices forbidden you to make known your revelations without leave from them?"

"I will answer you no more about it. On all that I have leave, I will answer willingly. I have not quite understood if my Voices have forbidden me to answer."

"What sign do you give that you have this revelation from God, and that it is Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret that talk with you?"

"I have told you that it is they ; believe me if you will."

"Are you forbidden to say?"

"I have not quite understood if this is forbidden or not."

"How can you make sure of distinguishing such things as you are free to tell, from those which are forbidden?"

"On some points I have asked leave, and on others I have obtained it. I would rather have been torn asunder by four horses than have come into France without God's leave."

"Was it God who prescribed to you the dress of a man?"

"What concerns this dress is a small thing - less than nothing. I did not take it by the advice of any man in the world. I did not take this dress or do anything but by the command of Our Lord and of the Angels."

"Did it appear to you that this command to take man's dress was lawful?"

"All I have done is by Our Lord's command. If I had been told to take some other, I should have done it; because it would have been His command."

"Did you not take this garment by order of Robert de Baudricourt?"

"No."

"Do you think it was well to take a man's dress?"

"All that I have done by the order of Our Lord I think has been well done; I look for good surety and good help in it."

"In this particular case, this taking of man's dress, do you think you did well?"

"I have done nothing in the world but by the order of God."

"When you saw this Voice coming to you, was there a light?"

"There was plenty of light everywhere, as was seemly."

[Addressing herself to Maître Beaupère:] "It does not all come to you!"

"Was there an angel over the head of your King when you saw him for the first time?"

"By Our Lady! if there were, I know nothing of it; I did not see it."

"Was there a light?"

"There were more than three hundred Knights and more than fifty torches, without counting the spiritual light."

"Why was your King able to put faith in your words?"

"He had good signs, and the clergy bore me witness."

"What revelations has your King had?"

"You will not have them from me this year. During three weeks I was questioned by the clergy at Chinon and at Poitiers. Before he was willing to believe me, the King had a sign of my mission ; and the clergy of my party were of opinion that there was nothing but good in my mission."

"Have you been to Saint Catherine de Fierbois?"(3)....(According to local tradition, this Church was originally founded by Charles Martel in 732, after his victory over the Saracens, whom he here ceased to pursue, and deposited his sword as an offering. This is by some supposed to have been the sword which later Jeanne sent for; but the legend is not of an early date, and there is no suggestion of the kind in contemporary writings. According to one authority, the Greffler de la Rochelle, the sword was found in a reliquary, which had not been opened for twenty years or more. The Chronique de la Pucelle and the Journal of the Siege of Orleans state that it was one of many votive offerings, and was recognized by Jeanne's description of the five crosses on the blade, possibly a Jerusalem Cross. Some of the old Chronicles say that Jeanne told the King she had never been at Fierbois: but this statement is disproved by her own words in this answer. The suggestion that, having been to three Masses in the Church, she might easily have seen the sword, is to some extent answered by the alleged difficulty of the Priests to find, among the many swords there, the one she had specially described. Of the ultimate fate of this sword there are many versions, and no two agree exactly as to date. It was certainly broken in striking a camp-follower, one of a class the Maid had forbidden to enter the Camp; but whether this was just after the retreat from Paris or earlier, it does not seem possible to decide. Jeanne herself says she "had it up to Saint-Denis" and "Lagny," both of which dates would imply the autumn of 1429 : but most witnesses tell the story of its being broken in the July preceding, though several different places are mentioned as the scene of the incident.)

"Yes, and I heard there three Masses in one day. Afterwards, I went to the Castle of Chinon, whence I sent letters to the King, to know if I should be allowed to see him; saying, that I had traveled a hundred and fifty leagues to come to his help, and that I knew many things good for him. I think I remember there was in my letter the remark that I should recognize him among all others. I had a sword I had taken at Vaucouleurs. Whilst I was at Tours, or at Chinon, I sent to seek for a sword which was in the Church of Saint Catherine de Fierbois, behind the altar; it was found there at once; the sword was in the ground, and rusty; upon it were five crosses; I knew by my Voice where it was. I had never seen the man who went to seek for it. I wrote to the Priests of the place, that it might please them to let me have this sword, and they sent it to me. It was under the earth, not very deeply buried, behind the altar, so it seemed to me: I do not know exactly if it were before or behind the altar, but I believe I wrote saying that it was at the back. As soon as it was found, the Priests of the Church rubbed it, and the rust fell off at once without effort. It was an armorer of Tours who went to look for it. The Priests of Fierbois made me a present of a scabbard; those of Tours, of another; one was of crimson velvet, the other of cloth-of-gold. I had a third made of leather, very strong. When I was taken prisoner I had not got this sword. I always bore the sword of Fierbois from the time I had it up to my departure from Saint-Denis, after the attack on Paris." (4)....(On September 13th, 1429.)

"What blessing did you invoke, or have invoked, on this sword?"

"I neither blessed it, nor had it blessed : I should not have known how to set about it. I cared very much for this sword, because it had been found in the Church of Saint Catherine, whom I love so much."

"Have you been at Coulange-les-Vineuses?" (5)....(A small town near Auxerre. In this neighborhood some of the chronicles place the incident referred to of the breaking of the sword. The question may, therefore, have been intended to elicit the story.)

"I do not know."

"Have you sometimes placed your sword upon an altar; and, in so placing it, was it that your sword might be more fortunate?"

"Not that I know of."

"Have you sometimes prayed that it might be more fortunate?"

"It is good to know that I wished my armor might have good fortune!"

"Had you your sword when you were taken prisoner?"

"No, I had one which had been taken on a Burgundian."

"Where was the sword of Fierbois left?"

"I offered at Saint-Denis a sword and armor; it was not this sword. I had that at Lagny; from Lagny to Compiegne, I bore the sword of this Burgundian; it was a good sword for fighting - very good for giving stout buffets and hard clouts. To tell what became of the other sword does not concern this Case, and I will not answer about it now. My brothers have all my goods - my horses,(6)....(Jeanne appears to have been a good horse-woman; she rode "horses so ill-tempered that no one would dare to ride them." The Duke de Lorraine, on her first visit to him, and the Duke d'Alencon, after seeing her skill in riding a course, each gave her a horse; and we read also of a gift of a war-horse from the town of Orleans, and "many horses of value" sent from the Duke of Brittany. She had entered Orleans on a white horse, according to the Journal du Siege d'Orleans; but seems to have been in the habit of riding black chargers in war; and mention is also made by Chatelain of a "lyart" or gray. A story, repeated in a letter from Guy de Laval, relates that, on one occasion (June 6th, 1428), when her horse," a fine black war-horse" was brought to the door, he was so restive that he would not stand still. "Take him to the Cross," she said; and there he stood, "as though he were tied," while she mounted. This was at Selles; and local tradition says that, from her lodging (a Dominican Monastery now the Lion d'Or hotel) the old iron town-cross was visible. It stood until about a century ago some fifteen paces in front of the north door of the Church, and was removed when the cemetery was converted into a market place. The Monastery was the property of the monks of Glatigny.) my sword, so far as I know, and the rest, which are worth more than twelve thousand crowns."

"When you were at Orleans, had you a standard, or banner and of what color was it?" (7).... ( The banner was painted at Tours, while Jeanne was staying there, before her march to the relief of Orleans. The account for payment, in the "Comptes of the Treasurer of War, gives: "A Hauvres Poulnoir, paintre, demourant à Tours, pour avoir paint et baille estoffes pour une grand estandart et une petit pour la Pucelle . . . 25 livres tournois." The description of this banner varies in different authors. The following account is compiled from them. "A white banner, sprinkled with fleur-de-lys; on the one side, the figure of Our Lord in Glory, holding the world, and giving His benediction to a lily, held by one of two Angels who are kneeling on each side: the words 'Jhesus Maria' at the side; on the other side the figure of Our Lady and a shield with the arms of France supported by two Angels" (de Cagny). This banner was blessed at the Church of Saint-Sauveur at Tours (Chronique de la Pucelle and de Cagny). The small banner or pennon had a representation of the Annunciation. There was also a third banner round which the priests assembled daily for service, and on this was depicted the Crucifixion (Pasquerel). Another banner is mentioned by the Greffier de la Rochelie, which Jeanne is said to have adopted as her own private pennon. It was made at Poitiers; and represented on a blue ground a white dove, holding in its beak a scroll, with the words, "De par le Roy du Ciel." It is given upon the cover of this book.)

"I had a banner of which the field was sprinkled with lilies; the world was painted there, with an angel at each side; it was white, of the white cloth called 'boccassin' ; there was written above, I believe, 'Jhesus Maria' ; it was fringed with silk."

"The words 'Jhesus Maria' were they written above, below, or on the side?"

"At the side, I believe."

"Which did you care for most, your banner or your sword?"

"Better, forty times better, my banner than my sword!"

"Who made you get this painting done upon your banner?"

"I have told you often enough, that I had nothing done but by the command of God. It was I, myself who bore this banner, when I attacked the enemy, to save killing any one, for I have never killed any one."

"What force did your King give you when he set you to work?"

"He gave me ten or twelve thousand men. First, I went to Orleans, to the fortress of Saint Loup, and afterwards to that of the Bridge."

"Which fortress was being attacked when you made your men retire?"

"I do not remember. I was quite certain of raising the siege of Orleans; I had revelation of it. I told this to the King before going there."

"Before the assault, did you not tell your followers that you alone would receive the arrows, cross-bolts, and stones, thrown by the machines and cannons ?"

"No; a hundred and even more of my people were wounded. I had said to them: 'Be fearless, and you will raise the siege.' Then, in the attack on the Bridge fortress, I was wounded in the neck by an arrow or cross-bolt; (8)....(May 7th, 1429.) but I had great comfort from Saint Catherine, and was cured in less than a fortnight. I did not interrupt for this either my riding or work. I knew quite well that I should be wounded; I had told the King so, but that, notwithstanding, I should go on with my work. This had been revealed to me by the Voices of my two Saints,(9)....(This prophecy is recorded in a letter written April 22nd, 1429, a fortnight before the event, by a Flemish diplomatist, De Rotslaer, then at Lyons. Her chaplain, Pasquerel, also states, in his evidence given in 1455, that she had told him of the coming injury on the previous day.) the blessed Catherine and the blessed Margaret. It was I who first planted a ladder against the fortress of the Bridge, and it was in raising this ladder that I was wounded in the neck by this cross-bolt."

"Why did you not accept the treaty with the Captain of Jargeau?"(10)....(June 11th, 1429.)

"It was the Lords of my party who answered the English that they should not have the fortnight's delay which they asked, telling them that they were to retire at once, they and their horses. As for me, I told them of Jargeau to retire if they wished, with their doublets,(11)....(Gallice : "en leur petite cotte," i.e., with only the light clothing worn under their armor.) and their lives safe; if not, they would be taken by assault."

"Had you any revelation from your counsel, that is to say from your Voices, to know whether it was right or not to give this fortnight's respite?"

"I do not remember."

At this point, the rest of the inquiry had been postponed to another day. We have fixed for Thursday the next Meeting, at the same place.